Comments on: How Loud is Too Loud?

By: drihanek

drihanek — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 14:34:31 +0000

Bill – That is good advice on how to measure sound levels, and I’ve said before IEM’s are the way to go in order to lower stage volume. It will take the band a while to get comfortable with using them, but with some help from crowd mics they will save everyone’s hearing.

Brad and Joy – convincing your soundman or worship leader that it is too loud is a very difficult task. Really the best way to do it is to ask for their advice about how to lower the volume as the listener. Joy it’s ok to bring up the decibel level, but do it in such a way that you have concern for yourself and ask what can be done, at least for you. The idea here is that most worship leaders and sound people are told to turn it down and they take it personally just like anyone else would. Be asking for advice you disarm their instant defenses.

As a warning, the answer still may not be what you want to hear, some people are just that way, however the hope is that they give you places to move in the sanctuary that are quieter. And in turn, they hopefully will become more aware of the crowd and turn it down. Finally, the best way to find the “dead” or quieter seats in the sanctuary, is to sit of axis of the speakers, in other words, not directly in front of them. The further to the sides of the speakers the better. If the room is too small and this doesn’t work, go sit as close to the soundboard as possible. Believe it or not MOST sound people don’t like it crazy loud, they just sit further from the speakers, thus it’s quieter. Let me know how it goes.

By: Joy

Joy — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:18:07 +0000

I am glad to see this discussion. As a woman and a singer i have found this problem very difficult. For some reason, asking guitar players or sound techs (some of them) to turn down seems to be almost an insult. i have also seen many a guitar player, worship leader, and sound tech who have hearing loss – which is not surprising – so they like it even louder. It breaks my heart because singers who can’t hear themselves because of the volume not only sing badly, they damage their voices in the process, trying to push against man-made volumes that they can never top. I have an SPL meter and our new worship leader likes it loud. In my favorite pew in the sanctuary, the band routinely hits 105 Db, and onstage it’s even louder. How can I ask him to turn it down without offending him? I don’t enjoy 105, but I also think it’s a dangerous level for all of us. Finally, where do you usually find the dead spots in a big sanctuary? We have crappy speakers but I think the monitors and onstage amps are what push it into the stratosphere.

By: Bill

Bill — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 00:02:22 +0000

First, you need to measure how loud it is. I try to peak at 87dB “A” weighted. Once you know where he runs it, you can try to establish a range that is acceptable to the crowd attending. Going direct with guitars and using “in-ear” monitors car make a huge difference. Lower the stage volume and the house will not need to be as loud! Today we only had a bass rig on stage. No floor wedges. Three guitars direct with everyone in head phones or “in-ears”. Clean and clear!

By: Brad

Brad — Sun, 22 Aug 2010 00:49:16 +0000

I was very pleased to find this discussion here as this issue has been on my mind for quite awhile. I’m not sure I will ever understand why some people prefer the worship to be so loud? After a while it is not worship anymore to me….it becomes noise at the higher decibel levels. What makes it worse is when the drummer is not sensitive to the room acoustics and the sound man has to drive up the vocals to match the drums. Eventually, more plexy glass was added around the drums with clearsonic panels. But, none of this matters if the sound man wants it loud anyway. How do I convince my sound man to keep the volumes at a reasonable decibel since the Pastor does not say anything to him?

By: Bill

Bill — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 02:20:55 +0000

I find Martha’s comments interesting. I have been mixing for a mid size church for over fifteen years and have run into this mind set before. Many times it stems from the talent level of the worship team. A very tight well rehearsed team that knows how to play well together will not be perceived as loud as a loose poorly rehearsed team. Keeping the stage volume low allows clarity in the FOH at lower volumes. Please try to use musicians for mixing the FOH. Most non musical types will not understand the subtle differences between instruments and vocals. EQing is everything. Most people in your congregation will not know how great a mic your using on the guitar, but they will know if you led them into the presence of God or distracted them away from His presence. For all the efforts of the worship team, a poor mix will destroy all your efforts! Spend a few bucks to get all the training in this area that you can!

By: Josh

Josh — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:54:15 +0000

That is an awesome perspective to get Martha! I’ve been running sound at church for about 5 years now, and it seems the more I run sound the more I find that sweet spot of volume/too loud. I’ve also sat in hundreds of services, some where the music is too soft, and some where I just want to leave. I tend to a praise song at about 85-90 decibels. Keep in mind that every auditorium is going to be different, as we are in a gym. During practice that 85 decibels is almost painful right in front of the speaker rack, but during service the 500+ bodies absorb most of that sound. I think when the worship team gets to the point where they are just there for the music, they are no longer a worship team, but a band playing music. The sound person is part of the worship team, and he needs to be on board with what the Worship Leader wants out of the service. Likewise, the Worship Leader needs to know what God wants out of the service. Personally, I think if you’re sound man is SO deaf that people are leaving the church because of it, you need to have a sit down with him because that’s not right. I’m sorry you had that experience.

By: drihanek

drihanek — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:15:34 +0000

Martha,

Thank you for your comments. I think you bring up some valid points, some of which I’m not sure if I have an answer. Often times I try to take the whole congregation into account, but I understand not everyone will feel like the sound is the best. I try to help people understand where to sit in relationship to the speakers so that the volume isn’t as loud also.
Sometimes I think that smaller churches do not understand there are some simple ways to lower volume, like turning down amplifiers on stage. I would say sometimes monitors on stage are worse for volume increase than people singing in the congregation, you know one instrument against the other. Please note that I am not saying worship should be like a rock concert, that is just what got me thinking, and I do not think it is fair to group all worship leaders as “full of themselves.” The point of the article is that we should all be aware of the needs of each other as we worship God together.

By: Martha Laka

Martha Laka — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 04:16:54 +0000

I have to tell you as a church member, it’s not all about the musicians. The louder you sing and then play, the louder the congregation sings, making you sing and play louder. It is deafening and doesn’t feel like worship at all, it feels like a rock concert. Some of us in the audience like to hear our voices and the voices around us. Unfortunately the church I have stopped attending refuses to lower the “decibles” because they think they keep the audience engaged with the loud music. All they’ve succeeded in doing is “running off” those of us that cannot handle, because it is even painful, not just annoying, the loud musical instruments and vocals coming from the stage.

May God help all of you that are up there on stage “putting on a show” rather than worshipping because somewhere you got so full of yourselves that you’ve lost that worship leaders are to lead worship NOT be the only ones worshipping above the congregation.

By: drihanek

drihanek — Fri, 15 May 2009 20:11:38 +0000

Good point Jason. Clarity does help a sound engineer run the db’s up without killing people in the congregation. And the quality of speakers are another good point, quality speakers can help people perceive a more pleasant sound without realizing how loud the sound really is. I might have more on that later.

By: Jason Benson

Jason Benson — Thu, 07 May 2009 21:22:45 +0000

Hey guys great topic.
I must preface my comment to those who don’t know me by saying that I’m usually on the stage singing rather than running sound. However in my experience of running sound these are my comments.
When I began leading our worship team here a few years ago we had many obstacles with our sound system. The sound system had been pieced together with older and newer equipment and had a very mediocre set of speakers. We tried several different option with how to hang the speakers because of the complaints we got. We have a pretty small sanctuary, low ceilings, and some of it was band issues.
The complaints was that everything was “muddy”, you couldn’t hear the vocalist, and when you did turn the vocalist up they were piercing.
One way we solved this problem was we invested in a good quality speaker. We went with Macpherson speakers. We went with 12″ highs with a 2″ tweeter and subs that are dual 18″ in a box. I must say that this was a HUGE factor in getting the sound right for OUR building. We have much more than we need, yet the ability to run it louder for different occasions. The clarity of the 2″ tweeter has allowed us to bring down the FOH volume and have a very clear mix.
Somehow that isn’t quite answering the question I think, but maybe one way to have control over how loud the mix is and still have it clear.
Anyway… Just my two cents! Keep up the post I want to keep learning!